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	<title>Comments on: Penury</title>
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	<description>too bad you&#039;re a whore</description>
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		<title>By: piglet</title>
		<link>http://uncouthheathen.com/2008/10/15/penury/comment-page-1/#comment-6149</link>
		<dc:creator>piglet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncouthheathen.com/?p=1044#comment-6149</guid>
		<description>you&#039;ve written an excellent post, a subject very near and dear to my heart.  i agree with the humanity aspect of this, as for the addicts/alcoholics i have a different opinion.

we grew up very poor, mayonnaise and crackers for dinner poor.  my mom was struggling to raise 3 daughters after our bio dad walked out on her.  he is/was an alcoholic that supposedly (i&#039;m sure this is true to some extent but my mom is still pretty sick with the bitter) went out and bought new cars/houses/etc with lots of money that he inherited.  while his kids starved.

i am a sober alcoholic with 17 years of continuous sobriety, still active in meetings, i have a sponsor.  sometimes the best thing you can do for an addicted person is to *not* give them a hand out.  a very good friend of mine committed suicide when he was 24 years old.  his family were quite wealthy, and they did everything they could to get him &quot;fixed up&quot;, treatment centers, therapists, etc.  they did all of this out of love for their child.

the unfortunate part of this is that he never got the opportunity to &quot;self correct&quot; b/c his family loved him and thought they were doing the right thing for him.  they were there to catch him after every single fall out of love.  this isn&#039;t something that the majority of people in the world understand or can do.  his death is not their fault, nor was his addiction.

i&#039;ve been to many jail/detox meetings and i see the same women over and over again using the system (not all of them).  the institutions are used as a &quot;vacation&quot; on some levels.  

having said all of that, would i turn my back on a person that needed some extra cash? most likely not.  i have been known to pay bills off for people, get them groceries, rather than just give them cash.  

i know from personal experience (and lots of funerals) that people will get sober/clean when they make a decision to do it from within.  it isn&#039;t necessary to have a warm bed, plenty of food, and a car to get sober.  i&#039;ve seen men and women that were homeless get sober, people that don&#039;t have cars, every kind of terrible situation you can imagine.  within the fellowship of aa people will help other people if they have an honest desire to be sober.  i can assure you of this.

a true story from my vault:  about 15 years ago, i got a call from our aa intergroup office that a female with two kids staying at the battered women&#039;s shelter needed a ride to a meeting.  i was lucky enough to have gotten the call.  she&#039;s still sober, her boys are grown, she&#039;s a college graduate with a good job driving a brand new bmw.  i realize that she was getting help from the shelter, which goes with your post but i firmly believe there should be a limit for those that abuse the system.  

not that i have any big solutions, i do not.  this woman is a good example of getting helped by the system and making her life better.  my own experience, we lived on food stamps and free lunches.  my mom didn&#039;t *use* the system improperly, and it helped us along.   there is no hard and fast rule for this subject, but i wanted to offer up my personal experience b/c there are addicts out there that will rob you blind, *you* being unsuspecting awesome/good people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;ve written an excellent post, a subject very near and dear to my heart.  i agree with the humanity aspect of this, as for the addicts/alcoholics i have a different opinion.</p>
<p>we grew up very poor, mayonnaise and crackers for dinner poor.  my mom was struggling to raise 3 daughters after our bio dad walked out on her.  he is/was an alcoholic that supposedly (i&#8217;m sure this is true to some extent but my mom is still pretty sick with the bitter) went out and bought new cars/houses/etc with lots of money that he inherited.  while his kids starved.</p>
<p>i am a sober alcoholic with 17 years of continuous sobriety, still active in meetings, i have a sponsor.  sometimes the best thing you can do for an addicted person is to *not* give them a hand out.  a very good friend of mine committed suicide when he was 24 years old.  his family were quite wealthy, and they did everything they could to get him &#8220;fixed up&#8221;, treatment centers, therapists, etc.  they did all of this out of love for their child.</p>
<p>the unfortunate part of this is that he never got the opportunity to &#8220;self correct&#8221; b/c his family loved him and thought they were doing the right thing for him.  they were there to catch him after every single fall out of love.  this isn&#8217;t something that the majority of people in the world understand or can do.  his death is not their fault, nor was his addiction.</p>
<p>i&#8217;ve been to many jail/detox meetings and i see the same women over and over again using the system (not all of them).  the institutions are used as a &#8220;vacation&#8221; on some levels.  </p>
<p>having said all of that, would i turn my back on a person that needed some extra cash? most likely not.  i have been known to pay bills off for people, get them groceries, rather than just give them cash.  </p>
<p>i know from personal experience (and lots of funerals) that people will get sober/clean when they make a decision to do it from within.  it isn&#8217;t necessary to have a warm bed, plenty of food, and a car to get sober.  i&#8217;ve seen men and women that were homeless get sober, people that don&#8217;t have cars, every kind of terrible situation you can imagine.  within the fellowship of aa people will help other people if they have an honest desire to be sober.  i can assure you of this.</p>
<p>a true story from my vault:  about 15 years ago, i got a call from our aa intergroup office that a female with two kids staying at the battered women&#8217;s shelter needed a ride to a meeting.  i was lucky enough to have gotten the call.  she&#8217;s still sober, her boys are grown, she&#8217;s a college graduate with a good job driving a brand new bmw.  i realize that she was getting help from the shelter, which goes with your post but i firmly believe there should be a limit for those that abuse the system.  </p>
<p>not that i have any big solutions, i do not.  this woman is a good example of getting helped by the system and making her life better.  my own experience, we lived on food stamps and free lunches.  my mom didn&#8217;t *use* the system improperly, and it helped us along.   there is no hard and fast rule for this subject, but i wanted to offer up my personal experience b/c there are addicts out there that will rob you blind, *you* being unsuspecting awesome/good people.</p>
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		<title>By: XUP</title>
		<link>http://uncouthheathen.com/2008/10/15/penury/comment-page-1/#comment-6139</link>
		<dc:creator>XUP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncouthheathen.com/?p=1044#comment-6139</guid>
		<description>No research necessary when you&#039;re speaking from the heart and you already have a good head on your shoulders. This was very well said. Excellent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No research necessary when you&#8217;re speaking from the heart and you already have a good head on your shoulders. This was very well said. Excellent</p>
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		<title>By: DolphynGyrl</title>
		<link>http://uncouthheathen.com/2008/10/15/penury/comment-page-1/#comment-6137</link>
		<dc:creator>DolphynGyrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 21:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://uncouthheathen.com/?p=1044#comment-6137</guid>
		<description>We were supposed to properly research something? 

Um.

Cause I just ran my mouth for, like, 87 paragraphs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We were supposed to properly research something? </p>
<p>Um.</p>
<p>Cause I just ran my mouth for, like, 87 paragraphs.</p>
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